Low Budget Lifepo4 Experiences anyone? - Page 28

always in motion is the future

Join Date: Feb Location: in paradise Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 19,978 Re: Low Budget Lifepo4 Experiences anyone? With a Winston 300Ah cell at $300.- I would not even entertain the idea of paying $225.- for a 300Ah cell that is a knockoff from Sinopoly. Sinopoly is lower quality than Winston already and knockoffs will be a step down from that (or rejects).

Also, on the Facebook lithium group someone just showed Winston cells actually have 25% more capacity than the label, so you would get 375Ah for $300 which brings the price to $0.80 per real Ah. __________________
'It's a trap!' - Admiral Ackbar.

Registered User
Join Date: Sep Location: Lifeaboard Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,222 Re: Low Budget Lifepo4 Experiences anyone? Quote: Originally Posted by s/v Jedi With a Winston 300Ah cell at $300.- I would not even entertain the idea of paying $225.- for a 300Ah cell that is a knockoff from Sinopoly. Sinopoly is lower quality than Winston already and knockoffs will be a step down from that (or rejects).

Also, on the Facebook lithium group someone just showed Winston cells actually have 25% more capacity than the label, so you would get 375Ah for $300 which brings the price to $0.80 per real Ah. Exactly my thinking...
These are the well known deals and proven combos to work:

272AH Lishen/Eve280AH for 60-80Euro per cell Grade B and real 240-250AH or for 120Euro,Grade A and matched with real 290AH
Ah per Euro champ

CATL 250AH for 160 Euro Grade A
Best quality for the AH per $

Or then Winston for 300AH for 270Euro, real 350AH
State of the art cells

These are the deals, to all you have to add shipping... Registered User
Join Date: Jun Location: Australia Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 4,651 Re: Low Budget Lifepo4 Experiences anyone? Quote: Originally Posted by s/v Jedi With a Winston 300Ah cell at $300.- I would not even entertain the idea of paying $225.- for a 300Ah cell that is a knockoff from Sinopoly. Sinopoly is lower quality than Winston already and knockoffs will be a step down from that (or rejects).
. Who says it's a knockoff of Sinopoly?
Is there anything to support this claim?
They look nothing like each other, weights are different, cycles are considerably different

https://www.evlithium.com/Sinopoly-Battery/483.html

https://www.evlithium.com/GBS_Battery/.html

If anything, if based on looks, size and weights the Sinopoly is a Winston knockoff

https://www.evlithium.com/thunder-sk...po4-300ah.html



Quote: Also, on the Facebook lithium group someone just showed Winston cells actually have 25% more capacity than the label, so you would get 375Ah for $300 which brings the price to $0.80 per real Ah Facebook, the fountain of truth. Registered User
Join Date: Sep Location: Lifeaboard Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,222 Re: Low Budget Lifepo4 Experiences anyone? Quote: Originally Posted by Simi 60 And in Australia, conversion rates
And 10% gst This we all pay, prices are in Yen or Dollar...
Just have the luck of ordering via austrian NGO that bulk order CATL and Yinglong LTO direct from factory and a german dealer for Lishen and EVE also direct from factory. Price per cell in Germany is reasonable/infact cheap but more important I know they are new grade A and not grade B.
Lishen or Eve 280AH capacity tested, upgraded busbars, studs and my order of all cells top balanced delivered and 100% new grade A for 150Euro per cell is cheap incl. all at my doorstep. Registered User
Join Date: Sep Location: Lifeaboard Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,222 Re: Low Budget Lifepo4 Experiences anyone? Quote: Originally Posted by Simi 60 Who says it's a knockoff of Sinopoly?
Is there anything to support this claim?
They look nothing like each other, weights are different, cycles are considerably different

https://www.evlithium.com/Sinopoly-Battery/483.html

https://www.evlithium.com/GBS_Battery/.html

If anything, if based on looks, size and weights the Sinopoly is a Winston knockoff

https://www.evlithium.com/thunder-sk...po4-300ah.html





Facebook, the fountain of truth. Winston are underrated and thats documented by many, if 10 or 25% don't care, well a bonus...
If knock off or not, i don't know them GBS, don't know the dealer and don't know if the datasheet is correct or toilet paper... Do they dliver 10C for a short period, Winston do and cell need to be top notch to be able to... Devil is in the detail...

If you wanna be the guineepig go ahead, I just use whats proven to work and use sources that really delivers whats described.

To really get grade A you need to know the sources and where your dealer really gets your cells...
For 220 till 300 i would get winston in a heartbeat from Julia, cannot go wrong with that. Trustfull source, grade A direct from factory and tested here by many. And yes better a 200AH winston then a 300AH GBS...i just didn't wanna spend that and went with lishen from a trustful source Registered User
Join Date: Jun Location: Australia Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 4,651 Re: Low Budget Lifepo4 Experiences anyone? Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainRivet If knock off or not, i don't know them GBS, don't know the dealer and don't know if the datasheet is correct or toilet paper...
Who are you?
Just because you have not heard of them, the dealer or done any research does not mean they aren't any good.

If you had done at least a few minutes worth of looking you would see they have been in the game since , same as Winston

And if I get them, it is factory direct, tested, matched etc. Registered User
Join Date: Jun Location: Australia Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 4,651 Re: Low Budget Lifepo4 Experiences anyone? Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainRivet Lishen or Eve 280AH capacity tested, upgraded busbars, studs and my order of all cells top balanced delivered and 100% new grade A for 150Euro per cell is cheap incl. all at my doorstep. Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainRivet just didn't wanna spend that and went with lishen from a trustful source Isn't t funny that when it's your money you chose the more affordable alternative from a battery that is new to the market

Yet when it's my money, the same rules do not apply. Winston or nothing

I too can get the EVE delivered including all the upgrades for about 40% less than the GBS but didn't want to go that cheap on what to me appears to be a vastly lesser quality build.
But if you want to be the guinea pig.....

Interesting. Did they need hooking up to an external BMS and if so what did you use?

Complicated

They were originally sold new on the basis that they would be linked together and hooked up to an external BMS type thing. However, those using them second hand dont use the external BMS type thing. I read around them a lot prior to committing, and I also know one person who uses a 2nd hand bank in a van, so was able to get some "face to face" advice and reassurance. This guy has them connected to solar panels set with an absorption charge of 13.9V and a float charge of 13.1V, and says he more or less takes no notice of them at all, other than checking the cell stuff on his laptop every 6 months or so.

There is a "partial" BMS panel inside each battery, which you can hook up to your computer, such that you can read individual cell voltages, max cell delta, total voltage, temperature at about 8 internal positions, and some other stuff. There is also an internal balancing facility, which is automatic, and I'm not sure how effective yet. I'm pretty sure it has no facility to cut the power, (charge or discharge), in the event of a bad event, so some external monitoring is necessary.

Externally, I have a 220A Victron Battery Protect, so that if overall voltage falls below a certain level, it cuts the power, a Bluetooth Victron BMV 712 Monitor, so I can see %age charge, voltage, Amps flowing, Ah used, and other stuff. I am also planning to fit a relay to the temperature monitoring bit of the BMV so it will prevent charging at less than say, 5C, (and over about 40C, which is an unlikely event).

I am off grid, so use a genny to charge, thus I am always onboard and watching when charging. My Sterling Pro Charge Ultra charger has a facility to set a custom Absorption and float voltage, so I am using 14.6V for both, because I can off the genny when I consider them full, or change the voltage to say, 13.6V, if I want to have them on a kind of float for a while. The Valence manual says that they can be left to float at 13.8V 24/7. However, there seems to be a consensus amongst those that know more than me, that this might not be a good idea. I don't know why for certain yet, but it seems to be mostly to do with the fact that LiFePo4 cells dont like to be kept at 100% SOC permanently, and are better cycled around 20% to 90% or so.

I have gone through 1 full discharge/charge cycle, fully charged them again Monday, and am down to 69% SOC on the current discharge. Each cycle has been about 400Ah, and I seem to use a bit over 70Ah per day.

Whilst charging, I keep a fairly close eye on the internal info on the laptop, i.e. individual cell voltages, and temperatures, and will either keep doing this, or stop when I am comfortable it's no longer necessary.

Once I've done a few 100% to 20% SOC cycles, and can see how things work, in terms of volts v SOC, I'll probably revert to cycling between about 90% and 20%.

The bank is a nominal 520Ah, and my ball park calculations suggest that it has at least 500Ah capacity, and possibly more. I spend a lot of time on board, (3-5 day/nights a week).

Previously I would be charging my Lead acid bank every day, or every other day, (for 3-5 hours or so), to keep them at 100% SOC.

Since switching on 17th December, I have charged only twice, (20% to 100%), and don't expect to charge again for 3 more days. Charging takes about 6-8 hours, so a full day job if done all at once.

In 13 days I would have run the genny for about 39 hours with Lead Acid. With the lithiums, I have run it for about 15 hours.

Assuming these batteries last as long as I might hope, they are way more convenient and easy to charge than the lead acid, and should prove way more cost effective.

I've rabbited on, and we shall see