If you are looking for more details, kindly visit drone motor thrust calculator.
I
Thread starter
Nick Nowaczyk
Start date
Jul 5,Tags
In summary, the faster the propeller spins, the more force it can create. The rpm of the propeller also affects the force of the airflow it releases.
Nick Nowaczyk
I was wondering how fast you would need to spin a drone propeller to lift x amount of force and mostly how the rpm of the propeller affects the force of the airflow it releases. I'm incredibly new to physics in general and you can take everything I say with a grain of salt.
I have no actual device but for a hypothetical the question would be something like:
'I have a fan/drone propeller that is .8m in diameter and the propeller is made of carbon fiber. How fast would it or how many at what speed would it take to release a force of N?'
Again, sorry if I'm going about this all wrong, I've never taken a physics course and may have no idea what I'm talking about.
Science Advisor
Award
Welcome to PF.
If you look at the blades of a propeller, you will see they have an airfoil profile like a wing. It is that wing moving through the air that lifts the drone propeller upwards, pulling the drone up by the motor mounts. The air that goes downwards is a reaction to the lift of the blade section.
The lift force will depend on the RPM and the number of blades on the propeller. It will also depend on the blade profile and the twist along the blade. That makes it complicated.
A rotor of 0.8 m diameter will have an area of 0.5 m2.
The rotor disc loading will be / 0.5 = N per square meter.
I think that is a bit high, and you may need a bigger prop or less weight. Look for specification data on a similar size drone. Find the rotor diameter and calculate the swept area. Find the total drone weight in kg, then multiply by 9.8 to get the hovering force in newtons. Divide force by area to compute a realistic rotor disc loading. Compare that with your example.
Science Advisor
Estimating the thrust just from propeller geometry and RPM is not a simple computation. One can use numerical methods, but it's much more reliable to look at the datasheets from the propeller, which are based on experimental measurements.Nick Nowaczyk said:
Estimating the thrust just from propeller geometry and RPM is not a simple computation. One can use numerical methods, but it's much more reliable to look at the datasheets from the propeller, which are based on experimental measurements.
Mentor
From the other direction, though, is fairly straightforward: force (thrust) is rate of change of momentum of the air. The propeller just accelerates a disk of air. Larger propellers mean lower velocity to generate the same force -- and less power.
Arjan82
Maybe this document helps, it's a good explainer (unfortunately imperial units...):With some good guestimates you can come a long way. But you would need some more details of the propeller, the most important ones are diameter and pitch. You've already mentioned diameter, for most propeller performance data this is also just a scaling parameter. This means you can say something about a 0.5m diameter propeller if you have data of a 1.0m diameter propeller, as long as the propellers are mostly geometrically similar.But pitch is the other important parameter, you can not scale performance data for that. I don't know what the typical pitch is for the propellers you are talking about. If you have the pitch you need to find a performance curve for a propeller roughly of similar shape but most importantly of similar pitch.The rest are 'second order' effects (I mean, based on the level of detail you are asking for). Yes, the number of blades is overrated, it hasn't got that much of an influence on the performance... (the difference between 2 and 3 bladed propeller is largest, and diminishes rapidly after that, but by large I mean <10% thrust difference at equal RPM or so)
Science Advisor
The OP sounds like it's about a copter-drone. Static propeller thrust is more relevant while hovering than cruising efficiency for fixed wing aircraft propellers.Arjan82 said:
https://nar-associates.com/technical-flying/propeller/cruise_propeller_efficiency_screen.pdfMaybe this document helps, it's a good explainer (unfortunately imperial units...):
The OP sounds like it's about a copter-drone. Static propeller thrust is more relevant while hovering than cruising efficiency for fixed wing aircraft propellers.
Homework Helper
Gold Member
Welcome, Nick!Nick Nowaczyk said:
Welcome, Nick!The pitch of the propeller is important as well.Please, see:
Thrust is generated by a drone propeller through the process of converting rotational motion into linear force. As the propeller spins, it moves air downwards, creating a difference in air pressure above and below the propeller blades. This pressure difference produces an upward force known as thrust, which lifts the drone.
The amount of thrust a drone propeller can generate is influenced by several factors, including the propeller's diameter, pitch, shape, material, and rotational speed (RPM). Larger diameters and higher pitches generally produce more thrust. Additionally, the efficiency of the motor and the density of the air (affected by altitude and temperature) also play significant roles.
To measure the thrust of a drone propeller, you can use a thrust stand or test rig. This device typically consists of a mounting point for the motor and propeller, as well as sensors to measure the force produced. By running the motor at various speeds and recording the thrust readings, you can determine the performance characteristics of the propeller.
Generally, larger propellers can generate more thrust because they move a greater volume of air with each rotation. However, they also require more power to spin and can create more drag. The pitch of the propeller blades also plays a crucial role; higher pitch blades move more air per rotation, increasing thrust but also demanding more power.
Yes, changing the propeller can significantly improve your drone's performance. By selecting propellers with the appropriate size, pitch, and material for your specific drone and its intended use, you can optimize thrust, efficiency, and stability. It's important to balance the propeller's characteristics with the capabilities of the drone's motors and the overall design to achieve the best performance.
By Lauren Nagel
Calculating propeller thrust is a useful part of the aircraft design process. It can help you choose the right components and determine your limits for useful load.
Calculations are based on assumptions and will only take you so far, which is why we recommend using a thrust stand to measure propeller thrust in order to validate calculations.
In this article we will cover both - the theoretical side that relies on equations and assumptions, and the practical side that uses physical testing to obtain true values. We will also show you how to use a propeller thrust calculator that estimates performance based on your inputs and real propeller data.
Table of Contents:
How do propellers generate thrust
Are you interested in learning more about how to measure engine rpm with a multimeter? Contact us today to secure an expert consultation!
Propeller thrust equation
Propeller thrust calculator
How to measure propeller thrust with a thrust stand
Example: how to determine a propeller's thrust
A propeller, whether on an aircraft or drone, generates thrust by accelerating air. The propeller blades are shaped to create a pressure difference between their front and back surfaces, causing air to be drawn in and then expelled at a higher velocity. For traditional aircraft, this results in forward motion. For drones hovering or ascending, the propellers push air downwards, producing an upward thrust.
Propeller thrust is dependent on the properties of the propeller and the air around it. This can be expressed in a few different ways.
We will first look at an equation for static propeller thrust, for a propeller that is stationary in a no wind condition.
Then we will look at an equation for dynamic propeller thrust.
First, thrust is dependent on the mass flow rate of the air and the change in air velocity:
The mass flow rate can be expressed in terms of the air density, air velocity at the propeller, and the area covered by the propeller:
Therefore we can rewrite the equation for propeller thrust as:
While Ve and V0 can be measured, Vp is harder to quantify. We can solve for this by thinking about thrust as the force on the propeller disk, which is equivalent to the change in pressure across the disk times the area:
and:
Therefore:
So in order to calculate propeller thrust, we need the air density, the radius of the propeller, and the air velocity entering and exiting the propeller.
On their website, NASA shows how the equations above are derived using Bernoulli's principle.
When calculating dynamic propeller thrust, we have to consider the forward airspeed of the propeller / aircraft, as well as the RPM and propeller dimensions:
This equation was derived by Electric Aircraft Guy. It uses propeller diameter, pitch, propeller forward airspeed, and RPM.
He has applied correctional constants to bring the results closer to data he measured, but he estimates it will still underestimate thrust by 15-30%.
Propeller Thrust Calculator
Mejzlik Propellers offers static and dynamic thrust calculators, which can be used to estimate the thrust produced by a propeller.
The way the calculators work is by interpolating data based on the performance of propellers Mejzlik has tested. According to their website, this covers multicopter propellers ranging from 10'' to 48'' in diameter.
To calculate static thrust, all you need to enter is:
Diameter
# of blades
Thrust/ prop
Air density
Motor efficiency
We used this calculator to find out how much weight a drone can carry. Here's what the interface looks like:
Figure 2: Mejzlik's propeller static thrust calculator
The dynamic calculator requires the following:
Motor inputs (Io, Rm, KV, ESC efficiency)
Propeller diameter
Propeller pitch
Air density
Drag
Aircraft speed
The calculators generate graphs comparing thrust and efficiency at different RPM values. They also estimate power consumption and compare your results with those for similar propeller sizes.
It can be a great tool if you're asking yourself: 'what size of propeller do I need for my build?' and need a place to start.
The calculators come with the following disclaimers:
They are limited to multicopter propellers, so you cannot adjust the propeller pitch (an optimal pitch is chosen for you)
The RPM and power values are applicable for Mejzlik multicopter propellers only
The accuracy is reduced as the # of blades increases
Motor data should be verified with the manufacturer
If you really want to know how much thrust a propeller can produce, the best thing to do is to test it. Our thrust stands support static and dynamic testing, so we've got you covered no matter what you need to measure.
Here's what you'll need in order to test your propeller's thrust:
Figure 3: Series thrust stand propeller setup
Once you've gathered the equipment you need, it's time to set-up your thrust test:
Secure the thrust stand to a hard surface
Attach your ESC and motor to the thrust stand
Attach your propeller to your motor
Connect the thrust stand to the power source and software
Control the thrust stand with the software and watch the data come in
In this video we show you how to perform this set-up, plus we use a wind generator to get dynamic results that are extra realistic:
For propeller testing, you'll most likely be interested in propeller thrust data as well as propeller efficiency, both of which are recorded by the software.
Here's an example of what the exported data looks like:
Figure 4: Propeller thrust and efficiency data from software
There are a few ways to find out if a given propeller can produce the thrust you need, and you can often use these techniques in combination.
Let's say we are building a quadcopter drone that weighs 40 kg in total, and we want to be able to generate twice the thrust required at hover for good maneuverability, so 80 kgf.
Divided by four propellers, this means we will need to be able to generate 20 kgf of thrust per propeller.
How can we find a propeller that generates enough thrust? We will follow these steps:
Check the propeller database for thrust data
Use a propeller thrust calculator
Test the propeller with a thrust stand
We host a free database of drone motor and propeller data. Data is contributed by users who have used our thrust stands to test their propellers.
To find out what size of propeller can produce 20 kgf of thrust, we will click on the 'Test Data' heading and then 'Add filters'. Next we click on 'Data', 'Powertrain Data', and choose 'Thrust (kgf)' from the first drop down menu, followed by the ''' in the next drop down menu, and finally we manually enter 20 in the last box. Finally, we can click 'Apply Filters'.
Figure 5: Filter settings to find propellers that can generate at least 20 kgf of thrust
'
These settings will show us all the tests performed with propellers that generated at least 20 kgf of force.
In the table that appears, we can first look at the 'Propellers' column, which gives us a snapshot of the diameter and pitch of the propellers that fit our criteria. If we want to learn even more about them, we can click on each test to get more details and data.
For this 62' propeller for example, we can see that it produces over 20 kgf of thrust:
Figure 6: Propeller data table from the database
That said, it produces a lot more thrust than we need, meaning it's probably larger than necessary. We can look at other results to find a propeller that would give us enough thrust without going overboard. This will ensure we're not carrying more weight than we need to be.
This 48' propeller with a pitch of 10 is a good example, as it produces thrust up to 20 kgf, but not much beyond that:
Figure 7: Propeller thrust graph for a 48' propeller
We can enter the properties of our motor, propeller and environment into the static propeller thrust calculator to estimate our propeller's performance.
We recently discovered that the average max efficiency of a brushless motor is about 78%, so we will assume that this is our motor's efficiency.
Figure 8: Propeller thrust calculator output
The calculator results tell us that a 48' propeller can in fact generate 20 kgf of thrust at an RPM of .
We can now test our 48' propeller using a thrust stand to confirm that it produces the thrust we need. We can also measure its efficiency and compare it with other propellers to find the most efficient one.
A thrust stand such as the Series works great for smaller propellers up to 5 kgf, but we need to measure up to 20 kgf, so the Flight Stand 50 will work best.
We mount our motor and the 48' propeller on the Flight Stand 50, then run a manually controlled test using the Flight Stand Software. We gradually drag the throttle up, seeing if we reach our needed thrust of 20 kgf.
Figure 9: Dataplots from the 48' propeller test using the Flight Stand software
This test confirms that this propeller can provide us with the thrust we need. We can repeat the test using different propellers of similar diameter, pitch and material to see which one is most efficient in our operating range of 10 to 20 kgf.
We exported the data from the test on the thrust stand and plotted the results side by side with the results from the thrust calculator (figure 10).
Interestingly, the thrust calculator underestimated the performance of the propeller. At all RPM values, the thrust measured by the thrust stand was higher than that estimated by the calculator.
This is generally the preferred scenario, rather than the calculator overestimating performance and the aircraft underperforming.
Figure 10: Thrust data from a thrust calculator vs. a thrust stand
This difference is likely caused by slight differences in the propeller - for example, the one we used may have a different pitch than what is assumed by the calculator.
It goes to show that if you want to know the true thrust and performance of your propeller, physical testing is the way to go.
In conclusion, there are many ways to estimate the thrust produced by your propeller using equations and thrust calculators.
However, if you want to know how much thrust they really produce in your propulsion system, the best way to find out is by testing them with a thrust stand.
If you would like to test your propellers, check out our propeller test stands:
- measures up to 5 kgf of thrust / 2 Nm of torque
- measures up to 15 kgf of thrust / 8 Nm of torque
- measures up to 50 kgf of thrust / 30 Nm of torque
- measures up to 150 kgf of thrust / 150 Nm of torque
For more drone wind tunnelinformation, please contact us. We will provide professional answers.