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e0ne199
recommended function generator for hobbyist
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on: August 29, , 08:30:40 pm »
hello everyone, i am currently looking for signal generator that i will use to generate signals for my electronic projects...after reading some threads this forum i see that some people here prefer using FY / FY because it is cheaper that most of signal generators discussed here although its quality is still questionable...for everyone who has used that, is that signal generator really lives up to its spec? i just want to buy an affordable signal generator which can be used on 90% of my project and actually meets its actual spec...your opinions are appreciated, thx
nctnico
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #1 on: August 29, , 08:34:22 pm »
For the money you can't go wrong. If it turns out you need more features and end up buying a more expensive generator at some point in the future then the Feeltech generator is still useful to have around.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
tautech
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #2 on: August 29, , 08:40:43 pm »
hello everyone, i am currently looking for signal generator that i will use to generate signals for my electronic projects...after reading some threads this forum i see that some people here prefer using FY / FY because it is cheaper that most of signal generators discussed here although its quality is still questionable...for everyone who has used that, is that signal generator really lives up to its spec? i just want to buy an affordable signal generator which can be used on 90% of my project and actually meets its actual spec...your opinions are appreciated, thx
If you want Bode plot plug and play with your X-E get one of the Siglent AWG's or study this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdsx-e-and-sdsx-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
joseph nicholas
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #3 on: August 29, , 08:52:43 pm »
There is a newer model of this but it has a different name. There is a thread going on this newer model here and a few reviews on youtube. Check it out.
You haven't told us much about yourself and what your current need is for this function gen.
Old Printer
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #4 on: August 29, , 09:53:32 pm »
And affordable means different things to different people, putting an actual dollar figure on your budget range would help.
MarkF
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #5 on: August 29, , 10:03:50 pm »
The following users thanked this post: Mechatrommer
e0ne199
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #6 on: August 30, , 01:38:19 am »
And affordable means different things to different people, putting an actual dollar figure on your budget range would help.
what i meant about affordable is a signal generator that meets its specification especially when generating square wave and sine wave and still cheap enough to buy... btw from what i see on some threads that discuss about feeltech signal generator, looks like it cannot generate any good signal when it works on its maximum performance when generating, for example, square wave... i don't know about siglent or rigol, but are they just on the same level as feeltech?? because both of them are manufactured in china too
tautech
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #7 on: August 30, , 01:43:13 am »
Study datasheets and come back and ask better informed questions.
Search for AWG models here in the forum.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Brumby
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #8 on: August 30, , 02:41:56 am »
... because both of them are manufactured in china too
This is, perhaps, the greatest face-palm comment I've come across for some time.
China can produce some exemplary equipment. China can also produce crap. This is just like any other country.
Except, maybe, Germany.
Why Clippy? -->
https:
//www.you
tube.com/watch?v=2_Dtmpe9qaQ
e0ne199
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #9 on: August 30, , 06:16:16 am »
Study datasheets and come back and ask better informed questions.
Search for AWG models here in the forum.
this is exactly what i am trying to ask... does siglent, for example, perform as what is written on its datasheet in real world situation?? it is hard to find someone who reviews awg's performance (except maybe feeltech) on youtube or this forum... feeltech awg also has tempting spec for its price point but in real life its performance is still disappointing...i just want to make sure that i don't buy the wrong awg
i am not trying to look down on chinese product but for me it is important to know about it anyway
« Last Edit: August 30, , 06:20:43 am by e0ne199 »
Vaiti
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #10 on: August 30, , 06:59:40 am »
Just get the feeltech, it will suit a hobbyist needs. tau will try to sell the siglent to you because he is a siglent dealer
tautech
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #11 on: August 30, , 07:57:58 am »
tau will try to sell the siglent to you because he is a siglent dealer
Not only, a hobbyist like many here too !
Study datasheets and come back and ask better informed questions.
Search for AWG models here in the forum.
this is exactly what i am trying to ask... does siglent, for example, perform as what is written on its datasheet in real world situation??
100% or better.
Quote
it is hard to find someone who reviews awg's performance (except maybe feeltech) on youtube or this forum...
Look at forum threads about SDGX, SDGX and SDGX for YT videos.
The important bits about sig gens, FG's and AWG's are these specs:
Waveform type max frequency
Bits, 14 or 16
Max amplitude and current
2 equal channels
Combine channels timing (both same phase)
Phase control
Output protection
DC source
External clock input
External trigger input
There are many more specs that some will consider more important but based on personal experience those are what matter to me. I have a SDGX that fits my needs well however I could have anything on my bench from the Siglent range, even the $6k fully optioned 500 MHz SDGX but that would be a waste.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Dubbie
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #12 on: August 30, , 08:41:58 am »
I have a Siglent AWG and have never had any trouble with it. It always behaves exactly as I would expect given the specs. If it was stolen tomorrow, I wouldn’t hesitate to replace it with another.
bitwelder
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #13 on: August 30, , 09:28:42 am »
i just want to buy an affordable signal generator which can be used on 90% of my project
...which are...?
If you can detail a bit e.g. about what frequencies you'd need to cover
or whether you need precision or stability from the siggen, you'd might have more precise answers
nctnico
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #14 on: August 30, , 09:29:38 am »
And affordable means different things to different people, putting an actual dollar figure on your budget range would help.
what i meant about affordable is a signal generator that meets its specification especially when generating square wave and sine wave and still cheap enough to buy... btw from what i see on some threads that discuss about feeltech signal generator, looks like it cannot generate any good signal when it works on its maximum performance when generating, for example, square wave... i don't know about siglent or rigol, but are they just on the same level as feeltech?? because both of them are manufactured in china too
Every function generator has a limited bandwidth and the specified bandwidth only applies to sine waves. Other waveforms have higher frequency content (google fourier analysis) and at some point there isn't enough bandwidth to create a square wave. There is no difference between the Feeltech and other frequency generators. In the past some manufacturers limited the upper frequency of their generators for non-sine waveforms to 10% of the bandwidth but nowadays most leave it up to the user to decide whether a waveform (with attenuated / missing higher harmonics) is acceptable or not.
And take note Tautech is a Siglent dealer; he tries to upsell you Siglent products.
« Last Edit: August 30, , 10:47:08 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
e0ne199
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #15 on: August 30, , 11:13:46 am »
i just want to buy an affordable signal generator which can be used on 90% of my project
...which are...?
If you can detail a bit e.g. about what frequencies you'd need to cover
or whether you need precision or stability from the siggen, you'd might have more precise answers
actually i want high precision and of course stability on generated signal for my project especially when i want to use square wave signal on it..according to the information i get from this forum about feeltech, it cannot generate stable signal even when it is not on its maximum performance...i just want to know about other signal generator (especially rigol and siglent) if they behave the same way as feeltech one...that is all i want to know about anyway
BillB
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #16 on: August 30, , 11:24:45 am »
Let's see what we have so far:
- Cost: Affordable
- Waveform type max frequency: square and sine wave
- Bits, 14 or 16: High Precision
- Max amplitude and current: ?
- 2 equal channels: ?
- Combine channels timing (both same phase): ?
- Phase control: stability
- Output protection: ?
- DC source: ?
- External clock input: ?
- External trigger input: ?
A few more answers and I think we'll have it nailed down.
« Last Edit: August 30, , 11:32:56 am by BillB »
e0ne199
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #17 on: August 30, , 11:25:33 am »
And affordable means different things to different people, putting an actual dollar figure on your budget range would help.
what i meant about affordable is a signal generator that meets its specification especially when generating square wave and sine wave and still cheap enough to buy... btw from what i see on some threads that discuss about feeltech signal generator, looks like it cannot generate any good signal when it works on its maximum performance when generating, for example, square wave... i don't know about siglent or rigol, but are they just on the same level as feeltech?? because both of them are manufactured in china too
Every function generator has a limited bandwidth and the specified bandwidth only applies to sine waves. Other waveforms have higher frequency content (google fourier analysis) and at some point there isn't enough bandwidth to create a square wave. There is no difference between the Feeltech and other frequency generators. In the past some manufacturers limited the upper frequency of their generators for non-sine waveforms to 10% of the bandwidth but nowadays most leave it up to the user to decide whether a waveform (with attenuated / missing higher harmonics) is acceptable or not.
And take note Tautech is a Siglent dealer; he tries to upsell you Siglent products.
wow is that true? if that is true then feeltech is really unbeatable in its price range...i really have to seriously consider adding it into my purchase list because after checking its price and spec for SDGX and compare it with FY, looks like FY is really superior than SDGX in terms of max frequency (60 MHz vs 30 MHz)
e0ne199
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #18 on: August 30, , 11:32:07 am »
Let's see what we've so far:
- Cost: Affordable
- Waveform type max frequency: square wave
- Bits, 14 or 16: High Precision
- Max amplitude and current: ?
- 2 equal channels: ?
- Combine channels timing (both same phase): ?
- Phase control: ?
- Output protection: ?
- DC source: ?
- External clock input: ?
- External trigger input: ?
A few more answers and I think we'll have it nailed down.
thx for listing the spec i need to have
- Cost: Affordable
- Waveform type max frequency: square wave
- Bits, 14 or 16: 14 bits, high precision
- Max amplitude and current: ? i don't know about current but max voltage should be 20Vp-p
- 2 equal channels: ?2-channel is a must
- Combine channels timing (both same phase): ?need anything related with phase
- Phase control: ?i absolutely need this, and it must be stable
- Output protection: ?if it is still affordable then i will need it
- DC source: ?
- External clock input: ?
- External trigger input: ?
i don't know the rest of them since i am new to signal generator
BillB
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #19 on: August 30, , 11:40:07 am »
i don't know the rest of them since i am new to signal generator
Given this, nctnico gave you the answer in the first response. Buy the feeltech, learn about it, and if/when you need more then you can upgrade later. You can keep the feeltech or even sell it at that point.
Don't overbuy on an AWG I'd argue it's the least used piece of equipment on the home workbench, and your money is better spent upgrading meters and scopes.
p.s. I've got a couple of Siglents (X,X) and they work fine for me. When you get to the point of wanting to upgrade, these are good choices to consider.
« Last Edit: August 30, , 11:44:20 am by BillB »
BravoV
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #20 on: August 30, , 11:41:24 am »
Missing the most important specification ... define "affordable" in number, otherwise this discussion is pointless.
1 ? 10 ? 100 ? ?
Dwaine
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #21 on: August 31, , 06:22:47 am »
I have the feeltech and the Siglent SDGX generators. I would save up the money and get a Siglent and be done with it. Since getting the Siglent SDGX, the feeltech has never been turned on again. For me, it's third most used device on my bench... I mostly do restores of old tube radio equipment and amps.
The looks great though....
Dwaine
nctnico
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #22 on: August 31, , 09:17:48 am »
I think the Feeltech / Feelelec model bridges the last gap by having a graphical user interface so you can see what the waveform looks like. I think it can compete with the lower end devices from Rigol and Siglent for general purpose use. An SDGX series takes you into the >500 euro range.
« Last Edit: August 31, , 10:58:17 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
MikeLud
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #23 on: August 31, , 12:59:27 pm »
Below is a video that shows a comparison of JDS, FY, and SDGX generating 15mhz square wave.
https://youtu.be/oOxLOsfoj30
« Last Edit: August 31, , 02:48:23 pm by MikeLud »
The following users thanked this post: Mechatrommer
fourfathom
Re: recommended function generator for hobbyist
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Reply #24 on: August 31, , 02:42:20 pm »
Below is a video that shows a comparison of JDS, FY, and SDGX generating 10mhz square wave.
https://youtu.be/oOxLOsfoj30
In the video, is there a termination on that cable? I don't think that Hantek scope has a 50-Ohm input option. We sure are seeing horrible reflections.
We'll search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to! -- I'll start with Radio Shack.
Still haven't decided which way to go. DIY or Anker F.In the meantime, had an electrician install an 8 circuit Generac manual transfer switch for my –-watt Generac inverter less generator with 10-gauge wire in conduit out to my barn and a extension cord with a L14 30p to run fridge lights etc. for house.
Also had him wire in an extension cord for my 1.5 hp Gould well pump on a separate circuit than the house.
Just want to run the basics in a power outage. With a splitter I can plug both into the Generator and everything runs fine.
I did not know squat about THD until I joined this forum. Surprised the electrician didn't say something when he put the transfer switch in.
Like "You should get a generator with an inverter, this one could ruin sensitive electronics on your devices."
Emailed Generac and they recommended a line conditioner. Not finding one that has 30amp L14 R&P to put between the generator and my transfer switch.
What do you recommend short of buying a new generator with an inverter.
I know there are many of you using inverter less generators. Appreciate your advice
Steve in Texas
Before I built my system I'd run my entire house with a W generac I bought somewhere around . All of my appliances, electronics, etc are still working fine and dandy. Prior to the generac I was using a W champion I got dirt cheap from tractor supply clearance section, I upgraded because it didn't like the ~40A inrush of my well pump...
A couple years ago I hooked that same generac up to my AIO (low batteries and grid down). At low wattages the frequency was all over, 57hz-63hz iirc. As I loaded up the generator frequency stabilized, around W was the sweet spot. Running close to max, over W, it wasn't at stable.
Oh, I really like Anker products, especially there soundcore speakers, but DIY or die is how I fly. ...
If you're really worried about it, build a 48V system pick up a cheap W rectifier and run that from the generator, the inverter will always invert that way...
Hope your right. Everything I checked on the web says I'm going to damage everything with my dirty generator power.
I don't have but a cheap multi meter, but I guess with a little advice I could figure something out about the 30-amp receptacle output.
In the meantime, I bought a Tripp Lite voltage regulator /line conditioner to protect my modem and charge the computer and charge our little 500 Jackery when the power is out.
Plugged it into the generator and the Trim light came on. Other light is Boost and Normal. Guess the power was spiking and this Line conditioner/ voltage regulator is trimming it. But this only has 110 outlets for individual devices, not a whole house
Seriously. YOu have no idea how many non-inverter generators are out there. I personally own three if you count the Onan in the 5th wheel and the backup little Coleman I have.
Betcha most of those resources are in some way incentivized to skew that direction.
How about you link one and we can do a dive?
found them
Bruh!!! like your wheels on the Turdator!!!!
My Turdator has just the regular wheel kit.
Hope your right. Everything I checked on the web says I'm going to damage everything with my dirty generator power.
I don't have but a cheap multi meter, but I guess with a little advice I could figure something out about the 30-amp receptacle output.
In the meantime, I bought a Tripp Lite voltage regulator /line conditioner to protect my modem and charge the computer and charge our little 500 Jackery when the power is out.
Plugged it into the generator and the Trim light came on. Other light is Boost and Normal. Guess the power was spiking and this Line conditioner/ voltage regulator is trimming it. But this only has 110 outlets for individual devices, not a whole house
If you have a crappy generator and if anything dies everyone blames it on the bad generator with no check to see if what died could have even been caused by the generator. Another old tradesman(wives)'s tale. And just about everyone is using bad generators (they are cheap) so everything that breaks while on a generator is blamed on the bad generator. Most of the sensitive electronics have switching power supplies and switching power supplies in general are pretty tolerant of a pretty wide range of voltages and frequencies. So long as the frequency is not excessively low and/or the voltage is excessively low or high they just work.
And I bet a lot of the scary stories are the people/"experts" selling expensive (probably still crappy--but gold plated crap) generators...
Appreciate all the input.
I feel better already.
Before I built my system I'd run my entire house with a W generac I bought somewhere around . All of my appliances, electronics, etc are still working fine and dandy. Prior to the generac I was using a W champion I got dirt cheap from tractor supply clearance section, I upgraded because it didn't like the ~40A inrush of my well pump...
A couple years ago I hooked that same generac up to my AIO (low batteries and grid down). At low wattages the frequency was all over, 57hz-63hz iirc. As I loaded up the generator frequency stabilized, around W was the sweet spot. Running close to max, over W, it wasn't at stable.
Oh, I really like Anker products, especially there soundcore speakers, but DIY or die is how I fly. ...
If you're really worried about it, build a 48V system pick up a cheap W rectifier and run that from the generator, the inverter will always invert that way...
Appreciate your input. If I did that, I would get an -watt inverter so I could run my well too. It pulls watts on startup. That's part of what has held me back. The first thing I would buy would be an Aims low frequency watt inverter and they are $ 3,564, before the 48volt batteries and fuses etc.
Appreciate all the input.
I feel better already.
Appreciate your input. If I did that, I would get an -watt inverter so I could run my well too. It pulls watts on startup. That's part of what has held me back. The first thing I would buy would be an Aims low frequency watt inverter and they are $ 3,564, before the 48volt batteries and fuses etc.
Is that measured via a meter with an INRUSH function, or with a MAX function. If it's not an INRUSH value, it's low.
There's a $760 Sigineer inverter that's 24V/W, and it started a 700' deep well pump with a ~15kW surge with no problem.
Sigineer makes AIMS.
Appreciate all the input.
I feel better already.
Appreciate your input. If I did that, I would get an -watt inverter so I could run my well too. It pulls watts on startup. That's part of what has held me back. The first thing I would buy would be an Aims low frequency watt inverter and they are $ 3,564, before the 48volt batteries and fuses etc.
Before you pull the trigger on that, you might want to look over a couple sites like SigatureSolar.com they have some package deals. Check out Watts24/7 and Current Connected too. Instead of an inverter/charger perhaps an AIO or Hybrid type would be better. But do find out if they can handle the well pump inrush but there are even ways to attack that too. One problem at a time. You came to the right place to ask questions.
I’ve got two Generacs and a Wen, none are inverter generators, but I have a chargeverter and it is great.
THD does not concern me too much, but AVR (auto voltage regulation) is a good feature.
Did you know unloaded generator voltages are like 130/260V+ (or more)?
The only time I've seen a generator exhibit excessively high voltage is when its regulator has failed.
It comes down to normal voltages under load, but my quattros refuse to use my generator power.
WHA? Did you see that horrific output of the Turdator? My Quattros never disconnected until I overloaded it with stupid.
Again, fortunately, I have a chargeverter.
there is that...
The only time I've seen a generator exhibit excessively high voltage is when its regulator has failed.
I should have clarified: For old generators like my Generac EXL, that’s apparently how they work with no load.
The newer ones are better.
WHA? Did you see that horrific output of the Turdator? My Quattros never disconnected until I overloaded it with stupid.
I should have clarified: My old EXL unloaded voltage was too high for the quattro to accept the voltage.
I could have raised the acceptable voltage limits in VEConfigure.
Or added a load to the generator to bring the voltage down.
The quattros work great with crappy output like the Turdator, but the settings have to be right.
there is that...
Honestly the quality of the power from the quattros is so much better for the house I will likely never directly use generator power into the house again because of the chargeverter. But it is still a good backup plan.
Don't spend your money fixing THD problems, because you can't really fix it at the home level. There is no device for the home market that cleans up THD inside the house (it's an intractable problem due to the way everyone builds power supplies for our devices). Most devices marketed at cleaning up "power problems" (and there are many kinds of power quality problems) tend to be very noisy themselves.
What does cause problems for our electronics is power *surges*. These range from micro-surges coming from every other device in your house, to grid-based surges, to lightning surges in one form or another. This is a power quality problem that you can *easily* do something about. Put in surge protection devices (SPD's) at the grid level (where your power comes in), at the circuit panel level (where your power is distributed), and at the (sensitive) device level (in the form of a power strip with surge protection). This is where you should spend your money.
I've run my off-grid house on Duromax and Westinghouse generators for years, at nearly hours per gen per year, and these gen's had THD approaching 20% ... no devices in my home ever died from it ... they all lived their normal life span. My Magnum inverter eats this dirty power, year after year, and in fact is still running, while way over its 5-year warranty. Most other folks will run their gen's a few hours each year (during grid outages), so the non-existent impact from THD would be a very minimal issue anyway. The good news on the THD front is that generators get better over time, as each year's models do power quality better than the previous year models. A current wgentfc puts out less than 5% THD, and it is an open-frame non-inverter-gen model.
You could spend $100's or $'s more on "inverter-gens", which do put out clean power, but you are then dumping that clean power into your house, which is full of dirty power. This is because every device in your house (with an SMPS, and we all have dozens or more of these) is dumping THD back out on the line, so the inverter-gen isn't really helping. But, as a concept, THD sells very expensive generators really well, thru THD's very close cousin, FUD.
Seriously. YOu have no idea how many non-inverter generators are out there. I personally own three if you count the Onan in the 5th wheel and the backup little Coleman I have.
Betcha most of those resources are in some way incentivized to skew that direction.
How about you link one and we can do a dive?
Bruh!!! like your wheels on the Turdator!!!!
My Turdator has just the regular wheel kit.
Before you pull the trigger on that, you might want to look over a couple sites like SigatureSolar.com they have some package deals. Check out Watts24/7 and Current Connected too. Instead of an inverter/charger perhaps an AIO or Hybrid type would be better. But do find out if they can handle the well pump inrush but there are even ways to attack that too. One problem at a time. You came to the right place to ask questions.
Yeah well pump in rush and advice from this forum has turned my attention to low frequency more robust equipment to handle being in an outside building that can get over 110 in the summer even though it is 24x 72 with concrete floor it still gets dusty here in Texas.
Don't spend your money fixing THD problems, because you can't really fix it at the home level. There is no device for the home market that cleans up THD inside the house (it's an intractable problem due to the way everyone builds power supplies for our devices). Most devices marketed at cleaning up "power problems" (and there are many kinds of power quality problems) tend to be very noisy themselves.
What does cause problems for our electronics is power *surges*. These range from micro-surges coming from every other device in your house, to grid-based surges, to lightning surges in one form or another. This is a power quality problem that you can *easily* do something about. Put in surge protection devices (SPD's) at the grid level (where your power comes in), at the circuit panel level (where your power is distributed), and at the (sensitive) device level (in the form of a power strip with surge protection). This is where you should spend your money.
I've run my off-grid house on Duromax and Westinghouse generators for years, at nearly hours per gen per year, and these gen's had THD approaching 20% ... no devices in my home ever died from it ... they all lived their normal life span. My Magnum inverter eats this dirty power, year after year, and in fact is still running, while way over its 5-year warranty. Most other folks will run their gen's a few hours each year (during grid outages), so the non-existent impact from THD would be a very minimal issue anyway. The good news on the THD front is that generators get better over time, as each year's models do power quality better than the previous year models. A current wgentfc puts out less than 5% THD, and it is an open-frame non-inverter-gen model.
You could spend $100's or $'s more on "inverter-gens", which do put out clean power, but you are then dumping that clean power into your house, which is full of dirty power. This is because every device in your house (with an SMPS, and we all have dozens or more of these) is dumping THD back out on the line, so the inverter-gen isn't really helping. But, as a concept, THD sells very expensive generators really well, thru THD's very close cousin, FUD.
Appreciate the input. Please define SMPS & FUD.