Lithium Battery Price: Good Investment? - Flux Power

Lithium-ion batteries typically run about 7.2 hours before requiring a charge. And, they can be safely discharged down to 20% capacity. 

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Lead acid batteries, on the other hand, require charging after about 5.4 hours of use. And, they can only be safely discharged down to 30% capacity.

The longer a battery is in service, the more cost-efficient it is to an operation. Swapping batteries after just 5.4 hours of use can lead to costly downtime for employees who must then remove the batteries from equipment and replace them with charged batteries so equipment can go back into service. This takes away productive time.

Shorter Charging Times

Lithium-ion batteries take just 1 to 2 hours to charge. They can be opportunity charged in between shifts or while employees are on break. Because of this, only one lithium-ion battery is typically needed per piece of equipment, regardless of how many shifts a company works.

Lead acid batteries require 8 hours to charge and another 8 hours to cool down. This means that the true amount of time needed for a lead acid battery to charge and go back into service is closer to 16 hours. 

This is key for companies that have multi-shift operations. If a warehouse operates 24 hours a day, equipment that is powered by lithium-ion batteries can be opportunity charged a few times throughout the day. That means one lithium-ion battery can be used for the entire duration of the 24-hour period as long as it has been charged.

If using lead acid batteries to power equipment over the course of 24 hours, one piece of equipment would require three lead acid batteries since workers would need to completely replace the battery after approximately 5 to 6 hours of use and then charge and cool it for 16 hours. 

In other words, managers must purchase three lead acid batteries for each piece of equipment to cover a 24-hour period. 

Contact us to discuss your requirements of 3 Wheeler Lithium Ion Batteries. Our experienced sales team can help you identify the options that best suit your needs.

Saved Labor Costs 

Labor costs are key to determining the true cost of a battery. As mentioned above, lithium-ion batteries can be opportunity charged quickly and efficiently. The process of charging a lithium-ion battery can also save a company substantially in labor costs. 

That’s because lithium-ion batteries:

• Remain in the equipment during charging
• Do not require transport to a separate charging space
• Do not require extra time to refill the battery with an electrolyte solution

In contrast, when charging a lead acid battery:

• An operator must use special lifting equipment and because of the battery’s weight, trained personnel must then remove the battery and place it on a storage rack where the charging will be done
• The battery is then charged for approximately 8 hours. 
• Once the charging process is completed, the cooling down stage begins. This lasts an additional 8 hours. 
• The battery will either remain where it was charged or personnel may transport it to a designated cooling area, if the space is needed in the battery room to charge other batteries. 

In fact, one major equipment manufacturer discovered it could save over $1 million by switching to lithium-ion batteries, simply due to the amount of lost productivity per day associated with charging the lead acid batteries they were using to power their fleet of equipment.

Safer For Employees

A safer work environment is one of the best investments a company can make. Lithium-ion battery technology offer several enhanced safety features:

• They do not require water maintenance. Lithium-ion batteries are sealed shut, whereas lead acid batteries are filled with an electrolyte solution. They require regular refilling with water or the chemical process will degrade and the battery could suffer an early failure. Watering a battery comes with risks. If a spill occurs, highly-toxic sulfuric acid can splash onto the body and cause serious injury. 

• There is minimal risk of overheating. Lithium-ion batteries have a battery management system that tracks cell temperatures to ensure they remain in safe operating ranges. If lead acid batteries overcharge, the electrolyte solution can overheat, increasing pressure inside the battery. This can damage the battery, or worse, cause an explosion.

• Less movement of the battery reduces risk for injuries. Because lithium-ion batteries can stay inside the forklift for the charging process, workers avoid any risks associated with battery swapping. Batteries can weigh several thousand pounds, and lead acid batteries require material handling equipment to lift and swap the batteries for charging. 

You can read more about how using lithium-ion batteries can improve the overall safety of your operations in our article, The Top 5 Ways A Lithium-Ion Battery Makes Your Forklift Safer.

A Good Investment For The Future

Often, an option that has an low upfront cost can be the most costly choice in the long run, which is why it is important to know what you are buying.

A lithium-ion battery is a smart investment because it not only lasts longer, improves productivity and saves costs, it also enhances safety … protecting your most important investment … your employees.

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FWC Lithium Manifesto

Ok, lately especially, my inbox has exploded with questions about DIY installation of lithium batteries into Four Wheel Campers. We’re talking 5 new inquiries a day. There is a lot of info about it on here already, but I thought maybe it would be helpful if I put it all into one, centrally located place from a more or less reliable source..
This is going to be long, but I think I’ll cover everything you could ever want or need to know about the charging system in your four wheel camper, and how it relates to lithium batteries.
First: Why lithium over AGM?
Well, honestly, it depends.

1. Full depth of discharge. You can only really pull 40-50% of the rated amp hours from lead batteries and expect them to live more than a year or so. Lithium batteries are rated for 100% Depth of discharge. This means that a dual 6v setup of AGM batteries is rated for about 224ah. BUT, you can only use just under half of that which makes them effectively 110ah of usable power when they’re new. A SINGLE 100ah Battleborn will have the same effective capacity as two 6v GC2 AGM’s and more capacity than the 2x 12v AGM batteries commonly installed into FWC. IF YOU CURRENTLY HAVE 2x AGM BATTERIES… YOU’LL ONLY NEED A SINGLE 100AH LITHIUM TO MATCH OR EXCEED THEIR CAPACITY
2. Weight and space savings. As stated above, you need FEWER batteries to make the same power from lithium when compared to lead options. Not only do you need fewer, but the lithium batteries are MUCH lighter. A single battleborn 100ah weighs about 27lbs. A set of GC2 AGMs weighs about 120lbs. For some rigs, the weight savings of 90lbs isn’t a big deal. For some, it is.. *cough* tacomas *cough*
3. Life span. Like I said before, you can expect your AGM batteries to last about 5 years.. IF you take good care of them. If you aren’t one to babysit your voltage and keep track of your energy use/charging, you’re looking at more like 1-2years between sets. At $600 for a set of GC2 6v batteries, that’s not cheap. A good lithium battery is warrantied to last 10. I’d expect them to actually last much longer in low-draw use like most of us have in our campers. Yes, the batteries are $800, but it doesn’t take many replacements to make up for the cost difference.
4. Yes.. they also can be charged/discharged faster. Whoopee. In the context of a FWC system, again with low draw, and low-ish rate charge sources, this isn’t much of a benefit really, but it does exist in theory.
5. But what about cold!?!?!?! A battleborn, as well as most other quality lithium batteries with internal BMS units will not charge below 27 deg F or so. Charging below that temperature WILL damage them, but, the BMS prevents this. So, if your battery is below 27deg internal temp.. it will simply not charge until internal temperature increases. IT WILL DISCHARGE, meaning your lights, pump, and HEATER will still work just fine. Which brings me to another point on this. FWC batteries are installed INSIDE. I use my camper all year long, including for ski and snowshoe trips. I run the heater. That’s WHY I have a camper. When I’m actively using the unit, it is NEVER below 27 deg inside. I also leave water in it all year round. If you are a sadist and like being super damn cold in your camper, there are many options for both internally heated batteries, as well as heating pads to warm them to a reasonable temperature and allow charging.

If you aren’t weight conscious and are a conservative power user who doesn’t mind keeping an eye on voltage.. honestly, your 2x 6v batteries are probably fine. If they’re working for you, keep on keeping on. Definitely don’t swap out a good set of batteries just because. Tacoma people: Swap out the 6v for a single lithium and you can bring either: 1x large dog, or a multitude of smaller dogs. Or several more cases of beer. Whatever you prefer.
Now for the real meat and potatoes. Charging.
First.. most lithium batteries on the market like an absorption charge of 14.4-14.6v or so to get to 100% full. If your charger isn’t capable of putting out voltage that high, it will not charge the batteries all the way.
Your FWC (and MOST vans/trucks/adventuremobiles) have two to three charging sources. The sources are:
Shore power, engine power (alternator), Solar. We’ll take each one in turn.

1. Shore Power- When you’re plugged into an external AC source, like at a campground or an outlet into your garage, the IOTA AC to DC battery charger inside your camper takes the 110v alternating current and turns it into 12v DC power, then sends it to your batteries to provide a charge. Older IOTA chargers have an option to plug in an external module to adjust it’s parameters to better charge lithium batteries, newer ones do not. In my experience, the IOTA charger is typically not able to charge a battleborn battery more than 80-90%. Will this hurt the battery? Well, technically, yes. If used this way long term with no other charging sources, you could see a drop in battery life since it’s not being fully cycled. So, technically YES, but effectively.. NO. Almost NO FWC users plug in on a regular basis. Even if you do plug in regularly, you also more than likely have a second or third charge source that IS capable of charging the battery fully, so the IOTA really becomes a non-issue. So maybe it can only charge 80%. No big deal, solar or the alternator (through a DCDC charger) can take care of the rest, and realistically will be your main charge sources anyway.
2. Engine Power- The factory setup from FWC is through 10awg wire a 30 amp self-resetting circuit breaker, and an Atwood trolling motor plug. The 10awg wire is connected to the starting battery under the hood, and connected to the house, or camper, battery through those components. You wouldn’t want your fancy Isotherm fridge or your furnace to drain the truck battery and prevent you from staring the engine in the morning, however, so the two batteries are ‘isolated’ by a Blue Sea ACR (automatic charge relay) or a similarly functioning SurePower charge relay in older models. These work by connecting the two systems together through a large internal switch when the relay senses a higher than expected resting voltage, indicating the truck is running. When the truck is turned off, the voltage drops, and the relay disconnects, effectively isolating the two battery systems from each other and protecting the truck from excessive discharge (from the camper, leave your headlights on and she still ain’t gonna start). Now, most alternators never put out a high enough voltage to completely charge ANY deep cycle battery, lead acid or lithium. Typically, this isn’t a problem assuming you have solar to supplement. What IS a problem, is the tiny 10awg wire between the two batteries. It’s simply not large enough to carry the current that either a single lithium OR a dual 12v/dual 6v bank would really like. We typically only see 6-9 DC amps of charging through the factory setup. Imagine trying to suck a chunk of strawberry through your milkshake straw. Simply upgrading the wire and retaining the Blue Sea ACR, even with dual 6v systems, we see 25-45 amps of charging. That’s a huge difference and makes for huge drops in driving time to full (or almost full) charge.

So, small wire bad. Not enough amps for effective charging. Doesn’t matter what type of battery you currently have. Another issue, for lithium, is that the factory ACR won’t disconnect the battery banks when the engine is off, since the lithium battery will rest at a higher average voltage than the original AGM batteries. At first this seems bad.. like it’ll keep them connected and allow the house system to drain the truck batteries, but nope. Once the house system, even the lithium batteries, are low-ish the ACR WILL disconnect and isolate the two, saving you from an early morning no-start.

There is another issue, however. Many newer vehicles have “smart” alternators. The higher resting voltage of the lithium can also play havoc with these fancy new alts. My GMC, for example, when connected directly to the lithium bank in my Grandby, would detect the higher voltage and assume the truck battery was perfectly charged, effectively shutting down the alternator. I would have periods where the power would actually run BACKWARDS. I would see a large draw out of my camper battery, going TO the truck. My house battery was essentially powering my GMCs systems, fuel injection, ignition, etc. Not really ideal.

We’ve identified three issues with the factory truck-camper system and a fancy new lithium battery: ineffective charging rate, inability to charge fully, AND weird undesirable issues with smart alternators. Another aside here: people will tell you that the lithium battery will accept TOO MUCH charge and will fry your alternator. This is technically true, but a standard single battery will never really draw enough over a long enough period of time to have that be an issue. Regardless, the solution to the preceding three issues will also eliminate concerns of alternator-killing overdraw.

DCDC Charger! A DCDC charger takes the voltage from the truck and turns it into the voltage/amperage it thinks the camper battery will need, a good one is programmable and can be setup to perfectly charge whatever battery you’ve got, including your new lithium. It’s also a CHARGER, not a relay, so it will only charge the battery at it’s rated capacity, for the Victron we use, that’s 30 amps. It won’t ever pull too much power from your truck’s alternator, it’ll always charge the camper battery to 100% (given enough runtime, about 3hrs from empty for a 100ah battery) AND it completely separates the systems so you’ll never find the camper battery has drained your truck battery overnight (or ever).

And the final piece of the puzzle: SOLAR! The overland solar setup is more than capable of charging your new lithium battery without issues, assuming you reprogram it for the 14.4v absorption charge. Yep, that’s it. Nothing else. Just push some buttons and go camping. No wire upgrades, no extra panels, nothing. You CAN chuck more panels (or a larger panel) up there, but that’s just to increase charge capacity. It really has nothing to do, specifically, with the lithium battery itself. An extra, or larger, panel would also help out your dual 6v. As an aside, the 160w panel is just barely adequate to keep up with the isotherm. We won’t even bother to install anything smaller than a 210w panel.

Battery Monitor: There is one final piece of the puzzle though: Keeping track of that new battery and it’s state of charge. Honestly, monitoring an AGM with a voltmeter is pretty darn effective. Keep it above 12.2v and it will last a good long time. Lithium though, doesn’t have a linear voltage drop profile, so simply monitoring voltage isn’t a great way to discern state of charge or ‘SOC’. A battery monitor with a true negative line shunt is the way to do that. It’ll effectively count amps in and amps out, and let you know exactly how much battery you have remaining, all rolled into a nice percentage readout. It’ll also let you know exactly how much power you’re using in the moment (and historically) and how well your chargers are working. We require them in any install we do, simply because they ask so many questions and really help shine a light on what’s going on with a power system.

In conclusion. What do I need to do to use a lithium battery in my FWC? Well, really, nothing. You CAN just chuck one in there. If you have the newer MPPT (overland solar) controller, you’ll probably even be able to fully charge it a lot of the time.
If you really want to get the most out of your investment though, you should definitely install at the very least, a battery monitor.
After that, a DCDC charger. While you’re at it with the DCDC though, please upgrade that tiny wiring from the alternator back to the camper. Otherwise you’ll never get the full use of the DCDC. You’ll be limited to about 15-20% of it’s capacity.
Do you NEED lithium? Probably not. But it is pretty rad. KP is a great, innovative resource for these electrical upgrades, I am lucky to have him nearby. The manifesto he posted above is a well thought out roadmap to upgrading your electrical system based on KP”s several years of research,work and hands on experience with a ridiculous number of campers, trailers and vans. He has also developed some awesome add ones for campers; an outdoor shower enclosure and some quick connect attachments for the cornerjacks. https://www.zerodeclination.com/


Here is the summary of what was achieved; upgraded wiring allows my 200 plus amp alternator to take my batteries from dead to full in a couple hours of driving, my 200 Ah of useable capacity relieves any remaining power anxieties. I do not enjoy thinking about power when I am out and about, I just want it to happen.

I did this in two phases. First I had KP upgrade the wiring from my truck to the camper and add in a victron BMS to replace the overland solar monitor. I did this after a late November trip with cold temps and minimal solar avail to top up. Healthy one year old AGM batteries were just not keeping up, solar was minimal, and the four hour drive home did not give the truck time to get the batteries full again through the factory wiring. When I imagined a longer duration trip without 8-10 hours of driving a day, and inadequate solar, I realized that an improved charging system was needed. Going to 4 AWG is like using a firehose to fill a swimming pool instead of a garden hose, it gets done quick. If I run my batteries down, which does become an issue with 3,4,5 year old AGM batteries, I am topped up in a few hours of driving, and functional after a few minutes of high idle while parked. 6 to 9 months later, the overland mppt conked out, fairly common, and KP replaced with a victron mppt.

This fall I observed that my three year old AGM batteries were having a tough time keeping up. Running the heater for a short period would rapidly drop them from full 12.8 V down into the 12.2 range. I am not sure what happened, the fall off in capacity was pretty quick. I think it might have been secondary to the failure of the two starter batteries in my diesel, but I cannot verify that. I had been noticing since late summer that the overnight voltage of the batteries was getting lower and lower in the history that the victron BMS records. So, I gave myself an early Christmas present and bought a couple battleborns and a victron dcdc charger.

To be honest, I was going to have KP do the conversion, but he was on a well deserved vacation trip and I had a lot of free time on my hands through the holidays. I used the above posted guidelines as my instructions and installed. It is a PITA working in the compartments, but I eventually got it all done. Two of the battleborn golf cart batteries will fit into the battery compartment of a late model FD hawk. YMMV. One take away from this was to use welding type wire in the future rather than the usual automotive grade. It is much less rigid and so much easier to work with. Standard wire is a real PITA to move around in these tight spaces. KP uses welding wire, my additional wires were automotive grade and only made my life difficult. Another take away is that the hammer style crimper works, but the crimp looks much more uniform and reliable when done with a professional grade crimper. I will probably have KP make up some replacement connections for me eventually to release some of the strain on the super stiff connections I made.