What is an ?
At it’s most basic an is a Li-Ion cylindrical cell that uses its dimensions as it’s designation. The first two digits are the approximate diameter, in this case 18mm and the following 3 digits are the approximate height in tenths of millimeters, in this case 65mm. Hence the 18 65 0 designation. These cells have a nominal open circuit voltage of 3.7V per cell and a full charge voltage of 4.2V.
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cells have been used for some time in laptops, power tool batteries and numerous other battery pack applications. However, they are increasingly finding there way into more and more diverse consumer devices such as high powered LED torches to door bells.
Some of the advantages of Li-Ion include a high energy density, low maintenance, low self discharge rates and depending on the cell a high maximum continuous discharge rate.
“PCM” or “BMS”
Generally Li-Ion cells in most consumer devices will have a protection circuit module (PCM or PCB). The PCM will help to protect the cells or battery pack from over charging, over discharge and over current and short protection. The PCM will help protect the user from potential fire and explosion.
A battery management system (BMS) is a similar circuit, with far more features. A BMS can or may monitor such things as the batteries charge state, balance the battery, report data, temperature, voltage, state of health.
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It is extremely important to use caution when working with and using lithium ion batteries as they are very sensitive to charging characteristics and may explode, burn, or can cause a fire if misused or mishandled.
We highly recommend reading our Li-Ion precautions sheet on handling Li-Ion.
How do I select an ?
There are many different types of Li-ION (Lithium-Ion) cells available, all designed to do a different job and generally differentiated by the chemical abbreviation, 6 of the most common are listed below:
- LiCoO2 (Lithium Cobalt Oxide – LCO)
- LiMn2O4 (Lithium Manganese Oxide – LMO)
- LiNiMnCoO2 (Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide – NMC)
- LiNiCoAlO2 (Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide – NCA)
- Li2TiO3 (Lithium Titanate – LTO)
- LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate – LFP)
Selecting the right Li-ION cell for your job comes down to a number of different factors depending on what you want the to do. Do you want to be able to discharge a high current in a short burst, or does your need to deliver a long cycle life? Lets take a look at some of the best quality cells on the market and some of their key features.
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So making a battery, eh?
Well I got to start somewhere, so I might as well try to get a little help with things that are on me mind. I must say I am more then a little intimidated by the task at hand.
1: Starting with the basic, when making cells do I start by making blocks in series or parallel? For me it will be a 22s12p battery. Or maybe less cells if my currency keeps dropping.
2: I don't know if I should skip BMS or not. If I do skip BMS it will make creation of the battery pack a little less daunting, and I will save time on soldering. Do I ever need to balance charge the pack, or can I just charge it all up to say 4,1v?
3: I see different ways of making batteries. Some just use nickel strips and calls it a day. Others feel that nickel alone can cause voltage drop because of heat so the solder on copper wire or silver wire on top of the nickel. Is that overkill, or something worth doing? I am thinking most power possible from the battery, and if that trick will help me get more power out without heating battery it just might be worth it?
4: Choosing a brand and a model seems like a lot of work just to know what separates the brands and models apart. I've been reading up for some days now, but I must say I am a little cooked in the head now. So at the moment I am considering one of these; Sanyo NCRGA or Samsung INR--35E. Then there are 20R , 25R and 30Q. Panasonic NCRB same as in Tesla, right? Kind of tempted to go with Sanyo or 35E from tumich.
Is there other cells that might give me higher C rate and more fun for repeatedly accelerations etc? Or are any of those from tumich a good choice?
5: Was planning to fit an on-board charger, like an Eaton APR48-3G. Do they have any way to regulate the charging, like a high voltage cutoff or must I personally keep my eye on the charging if I use this without BMS? I got really bad short term memory so putting me in charge of watching the voltage will end in pain and wasted money. How can I control high voltage cutoff without a BMS?
6: I see a lot of people are making pre-charge, I know it is beside the battery thread but for me it got to do with electricity so for me it is in the same alley. What does a pre-charge do? And should I use it?
7: Do people usually by a bit more cells then what they are building, to count for bad cells, bad welds, bad welder etc? I will use some recycled cells for trial and error on the spot welding. I mean for 264 cell pack how many could be bad - like 1-2% extra should be sufficient?
Forgot to mention that I got a QS 205, and I plan to pump 12-14 kw peak into that hub. The reason I decided to go 22s12p was to give each cell an easier life and get better C rate.
Some phrases might be worded wrongly, if in doubt you should assume I have no clue as to this topic. If I am mixing up words, thinking of this the wrong way or in any way don't make sense to you, let me know and I will try to explain. But I am in way over my head here
macribs said:
I must say I am more then a little intimidated by the task at hand.
That's a good start. It's not particularly trivial, and screwing up will, at minimum, get your attention, and at maximum, burn down whatever structure you're building or charging the pack in.
1: Starting with the basic, when making cells do I start by making blocks in series or parallel? For me it will be a 22s12p battery. Or maybe less cells if my currency keeps dropping.
With most modern battery types, you build parallel groups and then string those groups in series. The reason for this is that it makes balancing possible. Your BMS will have a balance wire to each parallel group, and if you don't have a BMS you'll still need to measure each parallel group. There exist some older cell chemistries (spinel LiMn) that supposedly self balance slightly, but the energy density on those is low so they're not commonly used anymore.
Why are you building a battery that huge? With modern cells (mAh), that's a 80v nominal, 36Ah pack, for nearly 3kWh of capacity. That's huge, heavy, 100 miles of heavy throttle use, and it's going to be very, very difficult to build as your first pack.
2: I don't know if I should skip BMS or not. If I do skip BMS it will make creation of the battery pack a little less daunting, and I will save time on soldering. Do I ever need to balance charge the pack, or can I just charge it all up to say 4,1v?
Please use a BMS. They offer you several things, all important:
- Balance charging. The BMS should balance the pack when charged, which is important for longevity and maximal useful energy.
- High voltage cutoff. If a parallel group of cells is overcharged, the BMS should stop charging the pack and throw an error.
- Low voltage cutoff. If, during discharge, a parallel group hits the low voltage cutoff, the BMS should disconnect the battery to prevent dragging cell voltages below safe levels. On most large packs, the swing from fully charged to fully empty is greater than the voltage of a single cell group, so you can end up with a bank of cells at or below 0v without triggering the bulk pack cutoff. This is bad.
If you have a BMS, it should balance charge each time you charge.
3: I see different ways of making batteries. Some just use nickel strips and calls it a day. Others feel that nickel alone can cause voltage drop because of heat so the solder on copper wire or silver wire on top of the nickel. Is that overkill, or something worth doing? I am thinking most power possible from the battery, and if that trick will help me get more power out without heating battery it just might be worth it?
It depends on how many amps you're going to draw. For a low power pack (250-500W), it doesn't matter much. For a high power pack (1kW+), there are some gains to be had from adding conductor capacity. It's probably overkill for most uses. The battery heating will mostly be from the cell internal resistance.
Is there other cells that might give me higher C rate and more fun for repeatedly accelerations etc? Or are any of those from tumich a good choice?
Your pack at a 1C discharge will be sourcing nearly 3kW. What on earth are you planning to
do with this pack?
5: Was planning to fit an on-board charger, like an Eaton APR48-3G. Do they have any way to regulate the charging, like a high voltage cutoff or must I personally keep my eye on the charging if I use this without BMS? I got really bad short term memory so putting me in charge of watching the voltage will end in pain and wasted money. How can I control high voltage cutoff without a BMS?
... again, 3kWh + an onboard charger? What are you doing with this thing?
Generally, the charger is set to output the maximum voltage of the pack, so for your pack you'd set the charger to 90.2v (4.1v/cell) or 92.4v (4.2v/cell). When the charger is done, it just sits at that voltage (many BMSs take a bit once the pack is charged to even everything out). Even without a BMS, it won't overcharge the bulk pack, but without a BMS it could severely overcharge a parallel group if a cell is bad. So use a BMS. Seriously.
6: I see a lot of people are making pre-charge, I know it is beside the battery thread but for me it got to do with electricity so for me it is in the same alley. What does a pre-charge do? And should I use it?
I think you may be referring to a pre-charge resistor or similar, which just prevents arcing when connecting a battery to a controller (inrush current). The precharge resistor allows the capacitors in the controller to charge slowly and equalize the voltage before you make the main contact.
7: Do people usually by a bit more cells then what they are building, to count for bad cells, bad welds, bad welder etc? I will use some recycled cells for trial and error on the spot welding. I mean for 264 cell pack how many could be bad - like 1-2% extra should be sufficient?
I generally pick up a few extra. But I don't think you understand just how large, unwieldy, and complex building a 264 cell pack is going to be. Try some smaller stuff first. I've rebuilt a good number of packs and I don't think I'd be inclined to build a pack like you're proposing (though I'd also have no use for it).
Some phrases might be worded wrongly, if in doubt you should assume I have no clue as to this topic. If I am mixing up words, thinking of this the wrong way or in any way don't make sense to you, let me know and I will try to explain. But I am in way over my head here
Yes, you sort of are... seriously, build some small packs first. And what on earth do you need such an insanely huge and heavy pack for anyway?